-- Num ---- Username ---- Category ------------- Posted -- Expires --
| 58331 | STU_JAJOHNSO | RELIGION             | 06/21/93 | 06/28/93 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Description: Reply to 58321: Reply to 58292: Reply to 5829         
=====================================================================

>> That makes it understandable why our basic philosophies differ.
>>If interested, I could refer you to some >>verses that speak of the
>>fulfillment of the law for better understanding of where I am
>>coming from.  I have a whole 2 lists of prophecies showing where
>>they are found in the Old Testament and where they are fulfilled in
>>the New Testament.
>>I could post/e-mail that.
>
>I'd appreciate that
>
 
I'll e-mail the prophecies.  These just scratch the surface.  The two
lists I am sending to you overlap somewhat.
 
>>The world has most likely declined even more since
>>Jesus.
>>That's my point though. Please correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't
>>the messiah supposed to usher in an age of peace? You know,
>>everyone rises from the dead, goes to jerusalem sort of thing? I
>>just don't see any big positives,
 
I don't see any big positives except one...the redemption of sin.
He came to sacrifice Himself so that by choosing Him, we could be
cleansed of our sins...our sins crucified...forgiveness.  He came
to begin the furthering of God's Kingdom--His Kingdom.  He didn't
come as a King David figure.  He didn't come to conquer the Romans.
He came to conquer death, sin, and hell, and He did...it is up to
us to choose Him and in doing so, overcome the flesh, sin, and gain
eternal life by the redemption of His blood.  Most people expected
a King David type of figure.  The Lord is being patient as II Peter
3:9 mentions and when He came to earth incarnate as Jesus Christ,
He made the option possible...the option of new life, mercy, and
grace.  Jesus waits for all to turn to Him, but He won't force them
to.  When the waiting is over, all kinds of end time prophecies
dating back to the Old Testament will be fulfilled.  The four
horsemen will appear and each attack and destroy as the first four
seals are broken.  Next, there will be a great earthquake, hail,
fire and plagues.  The devil will attack in a fury because he will
know that his time is short. There will be beasts.  Jesus will
return and harvest the earth for the righteous.  Then the seven
bowls of God's wrath will be poured on the earth. Babylon will fall.
Then the Church will be ready for the wedding of the Lamb. Jesus
will come as a conqueror on a white horse leading the armies of
heaven. He will strike down the nations, the beast, and the kings of
the earth.  Next, Satan will be seized by an angel and locked up in
the Abyss. The government will be on Jesus' shoulders as Isaiah
prophecied.  The saints will reign with Him in a period of peace.
Revelation refers to this period as the Thousand Years, but I don't
know if it is exactly 1000 years or not. After this period of peace
is over, Satan will be released.  He will deceive the nations and
gather multitudes.  He and his army will surround the camp of God's
people--Jerusalem.  Fire from heaven, however, will devour the evil
army. Satan will be thrown into the lake of burning sulfur where the
beast and the false prophet had been thrown and there he shall face
his punishment.  Then, the dead will rise at these end times to come
and they will be judged, but those who have chosen Christ have Him
as their intercessor.  The righteous will be justified by Christ.
No man can stand alone and call Himself righteous. Then, there will
be a new heaven, new earth, and new Jerusalem.  This is a very
superficial summary of some of the final end time events.  Revelation
is a very complex book, but it tells of the end times.  Hippo, some
of these occurrences relate to some of your comments about the new
Jerusalem, the age of Peace, and the dead.  But, before all of this
happens, the Lord is waiting.  Jesus Christ has come into the world,
fulfilled law and prophecy, and displayed His love for you and me as
He was crucified on the cross.  In doing this, He bridged the gap of
sin between mankind and God.  Through Christ, sin is crucified.
Through Christ, the old has gone and the new has come.  If people
choose Jesus, then they accept the gift of eternal life from God.
They accept the crucifying of their sins, and they accept the only
way to get to God--the only bridge.  That is why the age of peace
and the new Jerusalem and all the events mentioned above haven't
happened yet.  II Peter 3:9 says, "For the Lord is not slow as some
understand slowness, but He is patient not wanting anyone to perish,
but everyone to come to repentance."  I know I have gotten long-
fingered here, but I thought that some end time events from
Revelation might clear up things a little bit.
 
>politicallt and socially that is, coming from jesus. His teachings
>and ideas were great, even though they weren't really new, i just
>don't see anything messianic from them.
>
>> Jesus wasn't an earthly king;  He said, "My Kingdom is not of this
>>world" John 18:36.  In Isaiah, it mentions prophecies that
>>correspond to Jesus from the virgin birth to His suffering, but
>>Isaiah also says, "And the government shall be upon His shoulders."
>
>Which it was. He had formed a new sect of judaism that became very
>powerful and influential before his downfall.
>
 
In the end times, Jesus will have His actual reign on earth -- the
government actually being on His shoulders.
 
>>This may be what people were looking
>>for in the Messiah.  Jesus has yet to fulfill this, but this is
>>foretold in Revelation.  When Jesus comes back, He will reign and
>>fulfill the prophecies of the future.  When Jesus came, He made it
>>possible for people to choose the destruction of sin in their
>>lives.  One of the reasons, I believe, that the world is getting
>>worse is because people won't choose Jesus.
>
>How does this make the world worse? You certainly can't be saying
>that everyone that follows jesus is good and pure and everyone that
>doesn't are violent law-breaking heathens. If his teachings were
>truly carried out by everyone the world would certainly be a better
>place, but the world would be a better place if everyone just
>followed the ten commandments too.
>
 
Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian.  People
haven't all truly chosen Jesus.  If they would, they would be strive
to be Christlike.  You are definitely correct when saying that if His
teachings were truly followed by all that the world would be a better
place.  If everyone followed the Ten Commandments, then the world
would be a better place.  But good works don't save.  Faith in Christ
saves.  Laws condemn.  Do and don't is not the Christian way.  The
Christian way is to strive to be Christlike and in doing so striving
to live righteously and upholding the law.  Here is why there has
been so much time since Biblical times:  God is patient and waiting
for people to choose.
 
>>  People reject God.  Jesus didn't force people to follow Him.
>>Instead, He offered them salvation.  The sacrifice has been made.
>>Christ has entered the Holy of Holies by His own blood.  The
>>tabernacle curtain has ripped.  There is a bridge over the gap of
>>sin between man and God.  Jesus doesn't force people to choose Him,
>>but when one chooses Jesus, these things are true for that new
>>Christian. Changes don't come overnight, but they come.  There are
>>two sides in a spiritual battle:  One of those sides has offered
>>people the weapon to destroy sin.  The other side offers very
>>attractive temptation which, when acted on, results in sin which
>>will result in death.
>
>Everyone dies at the same rate no matter what religion.
>
 
True, but not everyone is saved when they die.
 
>> People have to choose the right side to win.  So, while the world
>>isn't better since Jesus, the option He offers gives hope and
>>assurance, and a personal relationship with God.
>
>That can be said with every religion.
>
 
There is no other person except Jesus Christ who allows us to identify
with Him and in doing so having a personal relationship with God.
There is no other religion where someone innocent and perfect was
sacrificed out of love and mercy to put to death the wicked way and
to intercede on Judgement Day.
 
Hippo, I understand why you don't think things are better.  I see it
on the news and in the paper daily how this earth is ravaged by
horrible things.  But there is hope in Jesus Christ who came to earth
God incarnate.  In Jesus Christ, man and God came together!  We can
identify with His emotions.  We can see that it is possible to overcome
the flesh and that it is possible to overcome temptation.  We can see
how to live righteously by His example.  And all of these things just
mentioned...overcoming flesh/temptation and living righteously are
made possible by His grace through Holy Spirit in the Christian heart.
And you have seen my posts and this post which briefly explain some of
what occurred on the cross, namely the bridging of the gap and
redemption of sins.  I have put a lot on here and I hope that these
explanations help you understand where I am coming from.  I, too,
await an age of peace.
 
We gotta meet sometime. :)
 
Beacon Deacon